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	<title>Comments on: Captive colony of Virginia big-eared bats providing valuable lessons in battle against deadly white-nose syndrome</title>
	<atom:link href="http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/</link>
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		<title>By: John Barrat</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4255</link>
		<dc:creator>John Barrat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 04:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4255</guid>
		<description>Comments on this article are now closed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comments on this article are now closed.</p>
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		<title>By: Nucharin Songsasen, reproductive biologist, National Zoo</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4244</link>
		<dc:creator>Nucharin Songsasen, reproductive biologist, National Zoo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4244</guid>
		<description>I agree with Amanda’s comment that “Bats are individuals, and while some may learn quickly, others may not. It is common knowledge among bat care specialists that bats who do not learn to self feed on mealworms must be hand fed twice daily for the remainder of their lives in captivity.” The bat expert we hired as a consultant to kick-start the project told us that VBEB would adapt to feed on mealworms within five days. She advised us to hand feed the bats twice a day for those five days and then to dramatically reduce that practice (she called it the “tough love” approach), even if the bats were not self feeding yet. We observed, however, that the bats that did not self feed continued to lose weight and become dehydrated. Because of this, we had to go against the consultant’s advice and continued to feed the bats twice a day. Any action other than adjusting to the bats’ health needs would have been negligent. 

In response to the comment that an individual bat can be hand fed by a caretaker in three-to-five minutes, I would like to point out that it takes at least 20 minutes for one bat to feed, whether that’s by hand feeding or by placing them in the pan to feed on their own. Even the bats that take worms readily from the hand or that pick up their own worm spend one minute, on average, to chew a single worm. Each bat consumed 10 to 12 worms per feeding, which means this took at least 10 to 12 minutes per feeding, and longer for the bats that didn’t take mealworms readily. After the feeding, the staff offered water and groomed each bat to make sure the food residue did not stick to their face or fur.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Amanda’s comment that “Bats are individuals, and while some may learn quickly, others may not. It is common knowledge among bat care specialists that bats who do not learn to self feed on mealworms must be hand fed twice daily for the remainder of their lives in captivity.” The bat expert we hired as a consultant to kick-start the project told us that VBEB would adapt to feed on mealworms within five days. She advised us to hand feed the bats twice a day for those five days and then to dramatically reduce that practice (she called it the “tough love” approach), even if the bats were not self feeding yet. We observed, however, that the bats that did not self feed continued to lose weight and become dehydrated. Because of this, we had to go against the consultant’s advice and continued to feed the bats twice a day. Any action other than adjusting to the bats’ health needs would have been negligent. </p>
<p>In response to the comment that an individual bat can be hand fed by a caretaker in three-to-five minutes, I would like to point out that it takes at least 20 minutes for one bat to feed, whether that’s by hand feeding or by placing them in the pan to feed on their own. Even the bats that take worms readily from the hand or that pick up their own worm spend one minute, on average, to chew a single worm. Each bat consumed 10 to 12 worms per feeding, which means this took at least 10 to 12 minutes per feeding, and longer for the bats that didn’t take mealworms readily. After the feeding, the staff offered water and groomed each bat to make sure the food residue did not stick to their face or fur.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothy</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4224</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4224</guid>
		<description>If anyone is in doubt about the claims made against the actions of the Smithsonian (and questions why they are still not getting the bats the rehabilitation they require), why not read the supporting evidence.  Go to PEER.org and look in the &#039;Breaking News&#039; section on the home page (March 9, 2010 article).  Mistakes were made.  It is time to correct them.  The only reason an agency would not act responsibly to save the remaining animals is because of egos or cover-ups.  The Smithsonian needs to act immediately to save suffering animals and they certainly would gain a lot more respect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If anyone is in doubt about the claims made against the actions of the Smithsonian (and questions why they are still not getting the bats the rehabilitation they require), why not read the supporting evidence.  Go to PEER.org and look in the &#8216;Breaking News&#8217; section on the home page (March 9, 2010 article).  Mistakes were made.  It is time to correct them.  The only reason an agency would not act responsibly to save the remaining animals is because of egos or cover-ups.  The Smithsonian needs to act immediately to save suffering animals and they certainly would gain a lot more respect.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat B</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4198</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 20:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4198</guid>
		<description>This issue goes far beyond the bats&#039; failure to self-feed. As per the above article, some bats had mealworm residue on their chins which progressed to dermatitis. Others had foot problems which resulted in systemic bacterial infections. This is totally unacceptable and speaks to inattentive caregivers, sub-standard husbandry protocols, and inappropriate caging facilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This issue goes far beyond the bats&#8217; failure to self-feed. As per the above article, some bats had mealworm residue on their chins which progressed to dermatitis. Others had foot problems which resulted in systemic bacterial infections. This is totally unacceptable and speaks to inattentive caregivers, sub-standard husbandry protocols, and inappropriate caging facilities.</p>
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		<title>By: Dorothy</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4193</link>
		<dc:creator>Dorothy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 19:38:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4193</guid>
		<description>To Mr. Sowders:

Talk about a coordinated agenda.  I have not conversed with anyone but I can read.  You state, &quot;Kudos to the Smithsonian for taking the chance, and shame on all of the rehabbers (batworld.org, wingsofhope.org – your affiliations show when you scroll over your posted name!) who seem very quick to be critical but offer nothing of use, and seem to have a coordinated agenda to attack within hours of this news.&quot;  Mr. Sowders it appears you are supporting an organization (the Smithsonian) that has a 75% failure rate with an endangered species.  You can call licensed, skilled rehabilitators and specialists all the names you want but you will never see that percentage of failure with them - ever.  Expertise is not self-proclaimed; it is documented with credentials, tested and licensed.  Contrary to your beliefs, rehabilitators train for years.  It is not guess work that is used; it is learned knowledge that is applied.  By condemning trained, licensed individuals who work the most with a particular species, you are condemning some very learned individuals who seek out the skill set of the rehabilitator (people like veterinarians, vet techs, biologists, zoologists, etc.) because those are the people who train with rehabbers because they cannot obtain that level of training anywhere else.  Focus on the issue at hand and stop pointing fingers where they do not belong.  Animals are dying because the Smithsonian  refuses to utilize standard rehabilitation care procedures and they have not sought out the advice from any facility skilled in sustaining propagation colonies.  Note:  For you information, every 6 year old knows when you scroll over a name the properties appear.  No one has to hide here but it appears a lot of folks are fighting to have their tax dollars directed towards saving a species instead of decimating it.  To all of you who have written in due to your concern for endangered species – kudos to you for wanting the bats to be saved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Mr. Sowders:</p>
<p>Talk about a coordinated agenda.  I have not conversed with anyone but I can read.  You state, &#8220;Kudos to the Smithsonian for taking the chance, and shame on all of the rehabbers (batworld.org, wingsofhope.org – your affiliations show when you scroll over your posted name!) who seem very quick to be critical but offer nothing of use, and seem to have a coordinated agenda to attack within hours of this news.&#8221;  Mr. Sowders it appears you are supporting an organization (the Smithsonian) that has a 75% failure rate with an endangered species.  You can call licensed, skilled rehabilitators and specialists all the names you want but you will never see that percentage of failure with them &#8211; ever.  Expertise is not self-proclaimed; it is documented with credentials, tested and licensed.  Contrary to your beliefs, rehabilitators train for years.  It is not guess work that is used; it is learned knowledge that is applied.  By condemning trained, licensed individuals who work the most with a particular species, you are condemning some very learned individuals who seek out the skill set of the rehabilitator (people like veterinarians, vet techs, biologists, zoologists, etc.) because those are the people who train with rehabbers because they cannot obtain that level of training anywhere else.  Focus on the issue at hand and stop pointing fingers where they do not belong.  Animals are dying because the Smithsonian  refuses to utilize standard rehabilitation care procedures and they have not sought out the advice from any facility skilled in sustaining propagation colonies.  Note:  For you information, every 6 year old knows when you scroll over a name the properties appear.  No one has to hide here but it appears a lot of folks are fighting to have their tax dollars directed towards saving a species instead of decimating it.  To all of you who have written in due to your concern for endangered species – kudos to you for wanting the bats to be saved.</p>
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		<title>By: A. Lollar</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4189</link>
		<dc:creator>A. Lollar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4189</guid>
		<description>Dear Mr. Sowders,

To set the record straight, several individuals with Bat World Sanctuary have attempted to go through the &quot;proper channels&quot; for over THREE MONTHS, to no avail. We have spent well over a hundred hours trying to help the CRC help theses bats, and have also worked to prevent this from going public and jeopardizing future projects. We were ignored by the staff of CRC, and USFWS continually ignored our advice while excepting excuse after excuse from CRC about why the bats were dying. This could have been so easily prevented. The thing to remember is that the right thing can STILL be done to save the remaining bats. And we have offered repeatedly to do just that. The ball is in their court now, we are waiting with open arms to accept those dying animals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Mr. Sowders,</p>
<p>To set the record straight, several individuals with Bat World Sanctuary have attempted to go through the &#8220;proper channels&#8221; for over THREE MONTHS, to no avail. We have spent well over a hundred hours trying to help the CRC help theses bats, and have also worked to prevent this from going public and jeopardizing future projects. We were ignored by the staff of CRC, and USFWS continually ignored our advice while excepting excuse after excuse from CRC about why the bats were dying. This could have been so easily prevented. The thing to remember is that the right thing can STILL be done to save the remaining bats. And we have offered repeatedly to do just that. The ball is in their court now, we are waiting with open arms to accept those dying animals.</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4188</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:50:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4188</guid>
		<description>While it&#039;s possible that some individual bats within a group may learn to self-feed within 3-5 days, it&#039;s not a hard and fast rule with any species.  Some bats will learn within a few days, others will take weeks, and some never get it.  The article states that those bats who didn&#039;t learn to self-feed within the proscribed time limit starved to death.  Why didn&#039;t the staff hand-feed until it was clear that the bats were self-feeding?  I&#039;d bet that the consultants you spoke with advised you to do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While it&#8217;s possible that some individual bats within a group may learn to self-feed within 3-5 days, it&#8217;s not a hard and fast rule with any species.  Some bats will learn within a few days, others will take weeks, and some never get it.  The article states that those bats who didn&#8217;t learn to self-feed within the proscribed time limit starved to death.  Why didn&#8217;t the staff hand-feed until it was clear that the bats were self-feeding?  I&#8217;d bet that the consultants you spoke with advised you to do this.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd Austin</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4169</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd Austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 05:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4169</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m just a bat conservationist, bat enthusiast and bat lecturer who is occasionally called upon to provide short term care or overwintering for an insectivorous bat.  I&#039;ve found that whenever I have a question about something, Amanda (as well as a plethora of people who were trained by Amanda Lollar) and &#039;Batline&#039;s&#039; Sue Barnard are just an e-mail away.

Whenever I&#039;m stuck as to what to do if a problem comes up, they usually steer me in the right direction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m just a bat conservationist, bat enthusiast and bat lecturer who is occasionally called upon to provide short term care or overwintering for an insectivorous bat.  I&#8217;ve found that whenever I have a question about something, Amanda (as well as a plethora of people who were trained by Amanda Lollar) and &#8216;Batline&#8217;s&#8217; Sue Barnard are just an e-mail away.</p>
<p>Whenever I&#8217;m stuck as to what to do if a problem comes up, they usually steer me in the right direction.</p>
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		<title>By: David Sowders</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4167</link>
		<dc:creator>David Sowders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Mar 2010 04:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4167</guid>
		<description>I find this story very interesting and unfortunate, but at the same time the comments are a lot more revealing to me about what truly goes on when organizations try to do what is right, and probably why not more people do it. I do not understand the rehab world or how science-driven they are, but it seems to be driven by individual experiences and self-proclaimed expertise... Kudos to the Smithsonian for taking the chance, and shame on all of the rehabbers (batworld.org, wingsofhope.org - your affiliations show when you scroll over your posted name!!) who seem very quick to be critical but offer nothing of use, and seem to have a coordinated agenda to attack within hours of this news. The quote from USFWS says it all &quot;The Smithsonian’s National Zoo is the only organization to accept the challenge of this risky, groundbreaking, but essential endeavor.” Now you see all these people criticizing when they could&#039;ve easily had their organizations step up and done it themselves. Why bicker and criticize and mention that scientists egos or lack of expertise this -and that instead of focus on saving an endangered species? If people like this truly cared about bats, they would go through proper channels of collaboration and not do their bashing on an internet posting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find this story very interesting and unfortunate, but at the same time the comments are a lot more revealing to me about what truly goes on when organizations try to do what is right, and probably why not more people do it. I do not understand the rehab world or how science-driven they are, but it seems to be driven by individual experiences and self-proclaimed expertise&#8230; Kudos to the Smithsonian for taking the chance, and shame on all of the rehabbers (batworld.org, wingsofhope.org &#8211; your affiliations show when you scroll over your posted name!!) who seem very quick to be critical but offer nothing of use, and seem to have a coordinated agenda to attack within hours of this news. The quote from USFWS says it all &#8220;The Smithsonian’s National Zoo is the only organization to accept the challenge of this risky, groundbreaking, but essential endeavor.” Now you see all these people criticizing when they could&#8217;ve easily had their organizations step up and done it themselves. Why bicker and criticize and mention that scientists egos or lack of expertise this -and that instead of focus on saving an endangered species? If people like this truly cared about bats, they would go through proper channels of collaboration and not do their bashing on an internet posting.</p>
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		<title>By: Kitty</title>
		<link>http://smithsonianscience.org/2010/03/captive-colony-of-virginia-big-eared-bats-providing-valuable-lessons-in-battle-against-deadly-white-nose-syndrome/#comment-4164</link>
		<dc:creator>Kitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Mar 2010 23:20:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://smithsonianscience.org/?p=4136#comment-4164</guid>
		<description>What experts told you that bats would learn to self-feed in three to five days?  As a bat rehabilitator I can assure you, there is no such timeline that the bats know about.  They will learn to self-feed in their own time, or perhaps not at all.  Until they do, they must be hand-fed twice a day.  Scrupulous attention to the details of hygiene, caging, and medical issues is essential.  As with any species of wildlife in captivity, proper caging and enrichment are a must, as well as taking care to reduce exposure to stressors.

If this project were about Giant Pandas, would you have consulted Grizzly or Koala specialists when you had problems?  I think not.  So why didn&#039;t you talk to the people who could have helped prevent this tragedy and make the project successful?  Amanda Lollar at Bat World should have been your first phone call, followed by personal consultation with Leslie Sturges at Bat World NoVa.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What experts told you that bats would learn to self-feed in three to five days?  As a bat rehabilitator I can assure you, there is no such timeline that the bats know about.  They will learn to self-feed in their own time, or perhaps not at all.  Until they do, they must be hand-fed twice a day.  Scrupulous attention to the details of hygiene, caging, and medical issues is essential.  As with any species of wildlife in captivity, proper caging and enrichment are a must, as well as taking care to reduce exposure to stressors.</p>
<p>If this project were about Giant Pandas, would you have consulted Grizzly or Koala specialists when you had problems?  I think not.  So why didn&#8217;t you talk to the people who could have helped prevent this tragedy and make the project successful?  Amanda Lollar at Bat World should have been your first phone call, followed by personal consultation with Leslie Sturges at Bat World NoVa.</p>
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